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Old 12-30-2005, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Phil Gordon\'s \"Fish N Chip\" Sandwich

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If the idea of Gordon's play is that you are looking to pick up the pot, this is a misapplication or a different move. There is absolutely no way this push picks up the pot.

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I actually said:

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In most cases I'm sure he wouldn't mind a fold.

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I think you misinterpreted my post. I'm not saying he always wants a fold. The pot odds definitely justify the play - although it is a rather high variance play. I'm saying he's likely not upset with either result - taking it down now OR playing it out. I'm sure there's a small amount of FE in there. Perhaps it's not much but isn't it possible pairs like TT or JJ are folding here fearing they are a 4:1 dog? The fact that the overcallers didn't raise leads me to think they are very likely to fold in this spot. I'm fairly certain they don't have a big pair or AK in this spot.

In the OPs example the pot is barely laying 4:1 for the original raiser and there are no more implied odds by getting the pot HU with hero. If the original raiser fears being up against AA or KK calling this push or coming over the top of it is marginal at best - and at this stage of a MTT he may not think this is a big enough edge to push since losing puts him in a really bad spot. I'm not so sure that you'll never pick up the pot here but you're probably right that those folds are very rare. The villains would need to hold a rather specific range of hands that hero's raise would be capable of folding out all of them in this spot.

However, if hero doesn't get the isolation he's looking for here then he could be in a really tough spot.

From Gordon's article:
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The initial raiser now has to call a very significant raise of $1,200. This is a very tough call with all but the greatest of hands.

Unfortunately, this time, my timing was off and he found a hand. The other two players folded (they didn't have a hand worth re-raising, so how can they call $1,200 more? It was very, very unlikely that either of them would be able to call such a big reraise.) Even with the call, however, I've still made a pretty good play. The pot has $3,650. I'm 42% to win. My pre-flop equity is $1,533.
I'm getting exactly the right odds on my money here.

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So he does look for folds in these spots. He isn't expecting the original raiser to really have a hand that can call this push very often. He's just figuring that even with a call he's not that bad off due to the equity the pot is offering.
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