[Jdanz]

i agree that we need to be somewhat less pc regarding these issues if we want to get to the kernel of truth that you're talking about, but i still think from a bunch of factual evidence you've drawn incorrect conclusions.

I believe everything you've said refers to a minority that was actively oppressed in a way that jewish and asian populations weren't in America (not that they weren't terribly oppressed). A far closer parralel to the systematic underclassing of a population would be the Irish in the 1800s.

If you remove the specific pop culture references this sounds almost exactly like an editorial in Manchester England two hundred years ago would say about Irish catholics.

The fact is that the statements you make about the black community as a whole are true in terms of the condition it is now in. That however has more to do with historical oppression then inherent lack of ability. Furthermore, just like the Irish, the black community is likely quite capable in the right enviornment. (Btw Ireland a hundred years and fifty ago was seen as the most intellectually bankrupt place in the "west" and today, to a large degree, it is seen as the intellectual capital of Europe.

Both races faced hundred of years of underclassmenship, where great effort was systematically not rewarded (where hard work resulted in someone else's benifit be it protestant land owners in the south or in Ireland). This of course has an effect on a community, but i think history shows a great deal of evidence that no "race" is less inherently capable of progress. Human progress as a whole is fairly cyclical and those in power often have a tendancy to see themselves as naturally more capable, rather then the lottery winners of forces they either don't understand or can't control. This happened to the Romans and the British and it will eventually happen to America, and we'll again discover that a lot of factors other then "racial ability" determine the "success" of a race.