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Old 12-02-2005, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: A good example of a casual mistake.

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In order for four people to call the flop they must like something about their hands. This means either they have top pair, and it's better than yours, or they are drawing.

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This just isn't true. I mean, of course, if they don't have a better hand then yours then they are, by definition, drawing. But that doesn't mean we should let them draw for cheap. Personally, I think this flop was misplayed. A nice check raise can help us find out where we are at. But we made our mess, now we need to get out of it the best we can. Letting 3 hands draw to unknown outs that the might very well give up on is rediculous. You can't just let go of TP for no reason. You have no reason to believe anyone has a better hand or has hit a draw. In fact, most flush draws raise the flop. Nearly all hands that had you beat on the flop raise the flop. True, the 9 could have completed some donks str8 draw or given someone else 2 pair, but you have no reason to stop bettin yet. This is just a scary card. Not a particularily scary card for us, as it gives us so many possible outs. Again, this flop was, IMO, misplayed. If you are gonna give up on TP on the flop, fine. But we've taken a line and until our opponents give us reason to believe that our hand is no good, keep betting. If you are unaware that players will call with no pair, no draw on the flop, then you haven't been playing limit for very long.

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With all due respect I do not feel that ALL of your opponents would call this flop with nothing at all. It is simply not true that you will be raised by a flush draw or any draw for this matter. Why would someone on the better's left raise the flop and thin the field??? He would want to see the next two cards cheaply and leave as many hands in with him as possible to boost his pot odds. Assuming that someone on a good draw would raise the flop goes too far. I do feel that if this were a heads-up situation some aggression here would be warrented and you should lead again to find out where you are. This situation however, is quite different. You are not letting you hand go for no reason. The reason you are letting go of it is because there is a large field, you hand is situationally weak, the pot is not large. I argue that this card does NOT give us many possible outs; often it gives us just one. Just because we put ourselves in a poor situation by our flop play does not mean that we should continue; a saved big bet or two is worth the same no matter the action on the flop.

Yes, we did make a mess of the flop by not folding there and the way to get out of it is very simple--fold.
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