[SammyKid11]

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I'm not a parent myself, but many of my closest friends are. I find most of them have forgotten how to be adults. They've been reduced to sick, goofy photocopies of their former selves. And the reason why is because between working and raising their kids, they have no free time/spare money to do anything for themselves, by themselves. This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle, bad spouses to each other, and worse parents to their kids than they would be if they maintained their own identities.

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Bolded above is like saying "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV." I'm glad that you at least point out that you don't.

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Kids aren't for everyone. If you don't want to sacrifice, don't have kids. If you think they are too expensive, then no matter how much you make, they are - don't have them. I'd much prefer that none of you douchebags that think $$$ is the only thing never have any kids because I don't want my daughter meeting any of your kids.

~ThisHo

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Very well said.

The head-shaker for me was the comment "This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle"

lol, I knew it was a lost cause at that point and went to bed shortly after...

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First of all, that was a small part of what I was saying (and you completely ignored the rest of it and failed to answer whether you thought my 1 night a week, 1 week a year was a reasonable standard). My main point is that parents are better parents and better spouses when they spend time together, alone...and that to do that on a regular basis takes some measure of financial freedom (not wealth, but comfort). Of course you completely ignored all of that.

Secondly, it DOES matter what kind of friends people become. Certainly not as much as it matters what kind of spouses and parents they are...but it still matters. You (and those on this thread that have agreed with you) have acted like you couldn't give two pieces of rat crap what kind of friends people remain once they have a child. And THAT is my very point.

Thirdly, if all you can do is shake your head and go to bed, it's possible you have your head so far up your kids' asses that you've forgotten how to make coherent, adult arguments. You've been saying all through this thread about how WE without kids don't understand, but you don't have the time or inclination to explain it to us. How edifying. Thanks so much for being condescending and never making your point other than in one-liners like, "You sacrAfice your freedoms for your kids" (since you're raising kids and that's the MOST important thing a person can EVER do, please learn how to spell the word "sacrifice" properly so you can teach that to your children) and "if you're not willing to be a slave to your children, don't have them."

Fantastic -- you're being a douchebag and acting haughty about it, all the while refusing to engage people like myself who have actually contributed an opinion WITH reasoning. What a wonderful characteristic to pass onto children. I'm so glad there's going to be more of you in the world.