Re: QJ preflop
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But with a hand like QJs and >3 limpers playing in front of you, you will be getting the right odds to call most of your draws on the flop anyway (some gut shots excluded) right?
I'm not the most experienced player so I think I also need some help understanding your logic. I think you are saying that if there is more money in the pot PF then there is more of a chance that continuing the hand on the flop will be a +EV play. But wouldn't the same thing be true of much weaker hands like 64s (i.e. if you put enough money in the pot PF then you can probobly make calling with 64s on the flop +EV)?
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TheHip already made the point about catching top pair, but there's more to it than that. KJ/QJ/QT/JT etc cannot make a non-nut straight when using both cards. So that means that when you catch a straight with one of these hands, you are going to win every time, unless someone else makes a flush or FH (or quads). This is not true of a hand like 64s, where you can catch a straight with a flop of 578, for example, but then the 9 comes on the turn and you're drawing dead to a JT, or the turn is a 6 and suddenly you're behind anyone with a 9 in their hand. King or Queen-high flushes are also far more likely to hold up than a 6-high flush (and a 6-high flush is almost never going to be good if the board comes 4-suited; you stand a pretty decent chance, especially on small stakes, of your 2nd or 3rd nut flush holding up even in these cases). This is why these hands play so well against a large field--you aren't going to hit the board big very often, but when you do, you're going to win a lot of the time. So you can afford to fold a lot of flops in exchange for the few huge pots you do win.
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Alright, I think you guys convinced me. I think the mistake I have been making is that when I raise PF with a hand like this I feel compelled to bet the flop no matter what (in a futile attempt to make everyone fold). This is not a bad strtegy heads up or against 2 tight players, but when there are >2 limpers and I raise from late position with these hands I should just check the flop when I miss (i.e. no pair and no strong draw). Am I getting this right?
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