Thread: The Crusades
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Old 12-02-2005, 01:09 AM
DVaut1 DVaut1 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 27
Default Re: Where You Were, I Was

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You're conjecturing theories,

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Of course it's conjecture. It's what I could come up with in 10 minutes.

The theory of evolution is nothing but conjecture (as is, of course, most scientific theories)...which doesn't mean that conjecture isn't informed and improved by solid evidence.

Like I said, I'd like to see an empirical study that proves even a correlation between Islam and totalitarianism. If you know of such a study, please do provide details (don't give me some link to some editorial by some Islamo-phobe cluster [censored] group).

Since no such studies exist (to my knowledge) -- you, me, and everyone else are forced to turn to conjecture. Such is the world. When complete evidence exists is when arguments become pointless. We wouldn't be here talking about this (or having political discourse in general) if complete evidence existed for the wide array of controversial topics that get bickered about endlessly.

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and trying to look at Islam through a Western lens.

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Being a Westerner -- yes, I'm forced to look at Islam through a Western lens. So are you. Don't pretend you've got some extra special, 'worldly' perspective. Perhaps you do, but I'd like to hear what kind of life experiences you’ve had to could make you so worldly. Perhaps you have had some life experience that have provided you with such a perspective. Perusing the pages of TownHall.com doesn't count, mind you.

But I'm all ears if, for instance, you lived for 10 years in Syria or something like that.

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Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, the reason Islamic societies have through many centuries tended towards totalitarian rule, and today so clearly do, is that Islam itself is absolutist and totalitarian, and that it contains prescriptions for totalitarian religious rule?

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Yes, of course I've considered it. I think that possibility is far outweighed by the preponderance of convincing evidence that has led me to believe differently from you, and led me to believe that you're fundamentally wrong.

But sure, obviously, I could be wrong and you could be right -- and I'm willing to consider that, but not merely because you say so.

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If you would just READ the Koran you would see for yourself...

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Well, if you would just LEARN Arabic and READ the Koran, you would see for yourself you're wrong (see, arguments that rely on such inane premises like 'you haven't read' are fun, aren't they? I can see why you try this so much. It's alot easier than tying to provide compelling and objective empirical evidence.)

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also, instead of trying to look at Islam solely through a Western lens,

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Which is, obviously, the lens you're forced to look at Islam solely through, too.

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why not listen to what the Islamic teachers have to say about it? Try to understand it from their point of view, and you will find that the things you and I find scary, they actually applaud (such as forced following of the word of Allah, etc.)

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How many Islamic teachers are there in the world? Millions? I can name one who disagrees with you.

I used to work with this Islamic scholar, for a short time at the ISR

He almost uniformly disagreed with everything you have to say about Islam.

But then again, I'm not so near-sighted, provincial, or naive as to think that every single Islamic teacher has completely consistent (or even similar) beliefs, either -- so I would never be dumb enough to make such silly and patently dim-witted arguments.
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