[BruceZ]

You read about on a par with the other leftists on this page. I can lead you to water, but I can't make you read. I can see I'm not going to have much time for this. I can't be working my ass off to dig up evidence that I've already seen of things that I and most people know are true just to convince you when you won't be convinced no matter what I show you, unless you want to pay my research fee. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

All your links but one point to Palestinian publications.

RRRRR, wrong. The last one references a number of other countries.

Iran is not an Arab country.

It is printed in Kuwait, and it says it is distributed by internet "throughout the muslim world".

The article, which is hardly from impeccable sources (the IDF itself)

RRRRR. See the same article I posted from the Jeruselem post.

presents no evidence of any state or educational support for the publication.

It says it's printed in Kuwait, and distributed to schoolchildren by internet throughout the muslim world. In the Arab world, nothing is allowed by print or internet that isn't under government control. The government controls this propaganda (I'll let you verify *that* if you don't know it).

None of your links demonstrate any teaching praising the suicide bombers in state-run schools, whether Palestinian or other Arab ones.

What do you call this?
Friday mosque sermons broadcast on PA controlled TV have called on worshipers to arm themselves or
their children with explosives to pursue holy war against the Jews. (The New York Times, Apr. 2, 2002)

This is rather pathetic

That's for sure. LOL And there is more evidence I could have put up specifically about what is being taught in Arab schools if this wasn't enough, I thought it was plenty. I know what is taught in the schools because I've seen interviews with those that attended those schools, and with the parents. See my post in the other thread, and M has some info on this too. But what good would it do? If I showed you 10 articles about 10 schools, you'd still just say "oh that's 10 schools out of the whole Arab world". You have a certain worldview you want to believe, and that is what you're going to believe no matter what anyone shows you. I look at the amount of evidence and the extreme nature of the evidence, and I say there is clearly a pervasive problem here, that can't exist without widespread cultural and governmental support. I have my read, and you have yours. If you want to believe all the antecdotes we read about are some isolated nut cases, and they live on an island surrounded by normal people, go right ahead. I hope you don't try to use that reading ability at poker, or if you do I want you at my table.

Bruce, this is what you wrote, and what I queried:

"As for "most Arab governments", that depends on if you go by what they do, or if you are gullible and go by what the tell the west their policy is. If you want to know what their true attitude is, look at what the government controlled schools teach their kids. That it is their duty to hate the west, to hate Israel, and that it is an honroable purpose to kill all the infidels who trespass on their land."

You referred to "most Arab governements", and governement-controlled schools. You said nothing about the existnece of pro-suicide bombing propaganda directed towards children. Of course some exists - it's created by the suicide bombers and their supporters. Again, you wrote about "most Arab governement" state schools.

I specifically mentioned the suicide bombing propaganda directed towards children, go look again. I said this is how we can investigate this, and that is what I've done for some states. I never claimed it was true of all states, or that I planned to be comprehensive. You claimed there was not a shred of evidence, and I provided plenty of shreds to get you started.

"5. Arab states financially support a number of terrorist groups."

Again, you didn not claim this. I don't dispute that some Arab states support terrorist groups.

That was the larger point I was making which started the whole thing, that the Arab states support terrorist groups, some of which have stated their objective to destroy Israel. You said you didn't agree, and the stuff about what they teach in schools was just one way to prove that. If you now agree that Arab states support these terrorist groups, then fine, it sounds like you're convinced now.

But however you want to nit pick these issues and the wordings of my claims, you're missing the bigger picture here as is typical. There is ample evidence here of cultural acceptance of using children for suicide bombings against Israel, and propaganda being circulated to encourage this. These children are exploited by terrorist groups which receive government funding by states with full knowlege of this practice. How can you sit there and tell me that such conditions can exist without widespread indoctrination of the children and all the people in a philosophy of hatred and violence towards Israel, and the support of the objectives of Hamas whose stated objectives are to destroy Israel?

How about you modify your original claim to "Several Middle Eastern governments, in particular Syria and Iran, financially support Palestinian terror groups, and those groups indoctrinate children about suicide bombings, as do some PA-sanctioned media". Drop the stuff about most Arab governments, their state-run schools, and killing "tresspassing infidels", and we might actually be able to more or less agree on something.

Sounds good to me, that's really all I ever claimed. Cal Thomas made the "most Arab" statement, not me. I just said we can find out if it's true by looking at what experts know about the financial support (last article) and by looking at what is taught in state run schools. State sponsored media is fine too, I don't care *how* the state indoctrinates the youth. But I know I can also find evidence for what is taught in schools in a number of countries, because I've heard interviews with people who attended those schools, and from parents who have had children in those schools. I can't post the interview in the web, but I'm sure I can find it documented somewhere. As for "killing infidels", of course they do, who else are the suicide bombers killing?