while I am not privy to the actual win/losses of all the regular 30-60 players, I know 4 who are making 50K+ a year - that ain't breakeven by any stretch. Similarly, I can only tell you by my everyday observations of the 15-30 game that the regular, daytime players grind it out amongst themselves and an occassional tourist or two. It seems that, on average, 7-8 locals are beating 1 local and 1-2 tourists a day from 12-4 pm when I typically play. When only 1 regular loses say 500 and it's divided 7 ways over 4 hours, that is over 1 sb/hr to "split" among the crowd. Yes...it evens out over the course of a week or month, and so in theory, all the locals should at least be breaking even. However, there are certainly days (like I had yesterday) when one makes 2 1/2 bb/hr with 6 locals in the game. I'm told that the evening games are better, but many "regulars" don't like these games because they prefer the tighter, more predictable play of the daytime crowd. The generally theory is : Better to make a little than to risk alot. Babe