[easypete]

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1) You have an A overcard

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Yes... yes you do. How do you think this helps out? Are you trying for an Ace to hit on turn? Sure this is one of your outs, but with 6 seeing flop, you may have kicker issues and you're dreaming a little if you think that A-hi will win when 6 see the flop. In this case, you are roughly 1.9:1 on making the flush... you are better than the number of players in the pot... Raising here would be (IMO) foolish to try to eliminate the rest of the field. Let the field call... The ideal situation here is that the player on your left raises... In this case... 3-bet when it comes back to you... In this situation, I want to see all 6 players see this flop capped... This is much more +EV than raising to try and win with A-high.

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2) You could possibly knock out a better hand making your A high good, and/or cleaning up an A out.

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No.... I don't believe you can. So don't. Even, in an ideal world, you could do that... it's much more +EV to go for the flush.

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3) Calling gives any 2 cards odds to call if A high might be good at this time. It really gives a bottom pair odds when you might knock them out with a raise. See 2 above.

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Not the point of this exercise... The point is to go for the flush. OK... since you're stuck on this concept, let's look at 2 scenarios.

Scenario 1.
You raise... you eliminate the field and get it heads-up. Let's be generous here and say that you're good about 50% (35% for the flush and throuwing in about 15% for an ace and winning w/ A-high) of the time here. (EP player betting into 5 opponents usually means he beats A-high).

You get this heads-up and win 6SB pf (4SB on flop) and about 1BB after the flop, netting you about 3.5BB/hand 50% of the time. You will lose 1.5BB/hand the other 50% of the time (assuming the EP player will never 3-bet or bet the turn). So you net 2BB/2 hands or 1BB/hand. Cool... that's nice.

Scenario 2:

You call... let's say that 4 see the turn. It's hard to tell what happens here... the EP player is betting the hand for you. There may be a raise from LP, it may be capped on the flop, it may be bet on the turn and raised... There may be 2 seeing the river, all 6 may be seeing the river... but there is no disputing that this pot will be bigger. Right away, on the turn, you will have a 10SB (5BB) pot minimum. Same as your scenario. Only this time, there will be a bet on the turn. This is almost guarunteed. If 3 see the river, the pot is already at 8BB. If you miss, you fold. You've invested 2BB and will lose roughly 2 times in 3 attempts here. When you win, you will win at least 10BB.

So 10BB 35% of the time won... 2BB lost 65% of the time. That's 2.2BB/hand won. Much better than the 1BB/hand you're getting by raising.

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4) If only called on the flop, you have good bluff potential should another K hit on the turn. Thin, but possible. There are better boards for this.

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Yes. But you still have good odds to call. When the board pairs on this turn, you can be behind, but that will only be the case a few times. It should be considered in later betting rounds about how far you will take this. Also, be careful, if you raise this and someone does have a K, you will be in dire trouble, thus increasing your losses.

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5) If some call behind you, they may well pay you off just as well if you hit your flush. If some call behind you, the raise turns to value. Especially if you're A is a clean out. With one it's about even money.

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This is a little confusing. I want callers behind me on this flop... I would like to see it capped... as long as 2 opponents see the flop capped with you, it will be about neutral EV. 3 or more it will be +EV. As for the turn... You will have odds to call an EP bet and a LP raise.

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He says the pot is small, only 6 bets. To me, 6 bets in an unraised pot with 5 opponents is enough to start cleaning up outs and maximizing my chances. Actually 7 bets after the initial flop bet. If you just call, many hands, other draws can easily call getting 8-1 or better.

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The pot isn't really all that small... I would take it if I could... but this exercise is about maximizing your wins, not trying to win a small pot.

There's an example in a 2+2 book, can't place my finger on it right now, but think it was either PoP or Inside the Poker Mind, that showed the strenght of AA. AA HU is about an 80% favorite, but drops w/ more opponents. For a long time, I hated seeing 4 to a flop w/ AA... Now I like seeing everybody on the table see the flop w/ me. Sure, you're % of wins will drop, but when you win... you will win big. Maximize your wins. That's the key.

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The BB could also be betting a lesser draw as well as a K. If he has a K, he'd be hard pressed to 3 bet your raise given that he got raised by an EP who looks like he'd have a bigger kicker than normal given his position.

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If BB has a K, you don't fear a 3-bet? That's just plain crazy. I don't know many players at 2/4 and above that will lead out and not 3-bet a K on a 2-flushed board. It's SOP for me as well as others.