Re: A22 hand
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Regarding my point that you are a 60/40 dog against any ace and 2 low cards, run it on 2 dimes and see. I think this is a huge range of likely hands that you are going to run into, and you are NEVER going to know when you are behind.
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Mendacious - Been a while since I’ve run anything on twodimes.net. I agree it is pretty nifty. So as to have the results fit, I’m going to omit “Hitie,” “Lolos” and “Lotie,” which, because of the way I input the opposing hands, are all zeros.
pokenum -o8 ac 2s 2h jd - ad 4s 6h 6c -- as ah 2d
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing As 2d Ah
cards-------scoop--HIwin--HIlos--LOwin---EV
2s Ac Jd 2h---210---650---170-----0-----0.524
4s 6c Ad 6h---170---170---650----520----0.476
pokenum -o8 ac 2s 2d jh - ad 3h 4h 5c -- as ah 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing As 2c Ah
cards-------scoop--HIwin--HIlos--LOwin---EV
2s Ac 2d Jh---190---531---289-----0-----0.440
5c Ad 4h 3h---289---289---531----630----0.560
O.K., I agree you can come up with one-on-one hands for Villain such that Hero is the under-dog.
If we enable a straight flush for Villain, it’s even a bit worse for Hero.
pokenum -o8 ac 2s 2d jh - ad 4h 5h 6c -- as ah 2h
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing As Ah 2h
cards-------scoop--HIwin--HIlos--LOwin---EV
2s Ac 2d Jh---190---501---319-----0-----0.421
6c Ad 5h 4h---319---319---501----630----0.579
I still don’t quite get to 60/40, but O.K., we can come up with various one-on-one hands such that Hero is the under-dog. However, in each case, Hero is only the under-dog because of low considerations. Even when we enable a straight flush for Villain, starting from the flop, Hero still wins high more often.
Well... wait, if I give Villain A234, so that Villain will start out with the same full house as Hero, and will also usually make a low, then Hero is way, way behind - probably even more than 60/40. But that’s really worrying about the monster hiding underneath your bed.
I agree that once you see the turn card, assuming it’s not a deuce or a jack, you can’t tell for certain if you’re still ahead. It’s true that an opponent holding the missing ace could pair one of his other cards on the turn. And that could also happen on the river.
But that isn’t <font color="white">_</font>likely. The odds are against that happening.
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You can't have it both ways in your analysis that Villian is more likely to have A and random cards.
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But that’s not “both ways.” that’s just <font color="white">_</font>one way - the most likely way.
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If villian stays in, in my view it is VERY likely that he has A and low cards.
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It makes sense to me that anyone with an ace who would see the flop will stick around after a flop with a pair of aces. Are you going to fold AKQJs after a flop of AA2 because you don’t have a low card? (I don’t think so).
I don’t know what kind of starting hands you people play in pot-limit Omaha-8. Would anybody play 2345s? or 3456-double-suited? If so, would that person stick around after a flop of AA2? (I would generally see the flop with both of those and then would stick around after a flop of AA2 in a limit game).
Sure, Villain certainly could hold an ace and low cards - but there seem various other possibilities. There absolutely are other possibilities in a limit game - and in a limit game there will generally be several opponents sticking around and drawing for low after this flop. I don’t know about pot-limit, but this is a time for blasting away in a limit game.
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They are the most commonly played cards.
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Yes there’s a good chance that if someone who has seen the flop has an ace there are low cards to go with the ace.
But gee whiz! Three of Hero’s opponents have seen the flop and there is only one missing ace!
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This hand will either win you a small amount/split pot, or get you steamrolled where you lose your stack.
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Sounds like you’re used to playing in tighter, tougher games than I encounter.
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And you will have no clue or control over it. Villian will have much better information about his hand, and can leverage the hell out of you. And, again I am speaking to the hand in PL terms now.
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Let me get this straight. When you hold A22J in the small blind in a pot limit game and the flop is AA2, you’re not going to bet? One of your opponents somehow has better information about his hand?
I understand that you’re out of position in the small blind - and I realize position is important in pot limit - but is it so important that you have to pussy foot around and give your opponents free cards when you flop aces full? And you’re not pussy footing because you’re trying to trap an opponent... you’re doing it because you think somebody has a better hand.
Isn't that a bit paranoid?
Is that what playing pot limit Omaha-8 does to people?
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Buzz
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