OK Metetron, you wanted to generate some discussion about the hand other than the river?

Our House: metetron's post.....
Victor: my statement was a a joke
Our House: nono
Our House: i mean preflop
Our House: i turbo muck
Victor: i call it
Our House: why do so many call it
Our House: UTG isn't known, there's a cold caller and a TAG 3 bets
Victor: 5.5:1
Our House: barely
Our House: it's a sh!tty 5.5:1
Victor: if capped its about 4.3:1
Our House: right, but there are different 5.5:1s
Our House: 5 limpers and you're SB is a lot different of a 5.5:1
Our House: and it also matters how many players have PPs
Our House: with a raiser, cc'er and a 3-bettor, it's much more likely that there are more PPs in there
Our House: seriously cuts down your chances
Victor: set over set is fairly uncommon
Our House: you're right when there's only 1 PP
Our House: 2 makes it worse
Our House: 3 is bad
Our House: 4 is terrible for you
Our House: plus, they don't fold pairs, so you can get setted on the turn and river also
Our House: everyone is spoiled from hitting sets and winning big pots
Our House: they forget the losses
Victor: pairs and sets are fun
Our House: but not +EV
Our House: just fun
Victor: im not sure
Victor: i think its profitable
Victor: not a gold mine
Victor: but just playing for set value should work

Metetron, I think the preflop call is slightly -EV just to hit a set. If you're going to play the hand the way you did, preflop is even more than slightly -EV.