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Old 12-26-2005, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Curtains: screw the 10 BB \'rule\'

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This is interesting. SBa nd BB can minimize button's pushing with AQ value (at +$13.81), by calling about 15% and 10% respectively. Given this calling range, Button can push to advantage with 66+,AT0+,A9s+. (This doesn't mean, of course, that there might not be better plays than pushing with some hands in that range.) Moving a bigger stack to the BB (switching the 1205 and 2210 stacks) reduces the value to +$9.26.

(Remember, these are relative to a fold -- it should be no surprise that playing with AQo produces a net gain vs a fold. Whatwe'd really like to see is a comparison of the EV between a push and a standard raise.)

I've often wondered how the 10 BB rule came to be. I figured there was some sort of mathematical justification. Is that correct? Or, is it just a general reluctance to risk >x% of your stack that isn't backed up entirely by numbers?

A significant part of the argument in favor of pushing withthis hand seems to be that you will be calling a re-raise all-in. There are lots of situations in the early levels where you make a standard raise with the intention of calling if someone goes all-in behind you. Yet, people would argue that the standard raise is the better value play. Can you offer some insight into the differences, or what triggers the move to all-in instead of standard raise?

Is there a hand range, with the stacks, where you would make a standard raise from the button?

I know that's a lot of questions, but this move (supported by EV calculations) seems to go against the general advice given in this forum. I imagine lots if us are realizing we've had a leak for a while. (How big that leak is would be up to debate, because we'd have to be able to determine the EV for a standard raise.)

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The 10x BB rule is mainly to simplify things for beginners, nothing else. Unfortunately once these beginners become non beginners, they sometimes fail to realize this.

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My thoughts with the actual hand would have been something along the lines of: if I get re-raised all-in, I can call; if someone flat calls, I'll be playing the hand with position. Which would have been OK with me.

More than a 10x or 15x rule, what I'm really looking for is the thinking behind the action. I'd like to understand rather than follow a rule.

So, what is the thinking that makes you decide to push rather than make a 2.5-3x BB raise? Is it as simple as: I have to call an all-in, so I might as well push? Or, is there something more behind it?
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