[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
You are misanalyzing the situation here. The hero indeed only has 4 pure outs here, 3 pure outs for his overs, and 1 pure out for his backdoor flush. There is a reason why I am ignoring the backdoor straight out, since it would be runner runner gutshot, this should be counted as .5 pure outs, however given the heros poor relative postion in this hand(meaning if the hero does turn a gutshot draw, it could very easily get raised behind him on the turn) the backdoor straight should be discounted to 0 pure outs.

I'll move on to your next statement. "There is no possible way you could be drawing dead here" In multiway pots, there are actually many times when you will drawing dead with AK. All it takes is for someone to have A4, and another guy to have KT, and poof, the hero is drawing dead, or someone to have two pair or a set.

Also, generally speaking there are many times you should call with just overcards getting 11-1, but NOT IN THIS SITUATION. There are 3 people to act after the hero, the hero's relative position in the hand is horrible, the odds of a raising coming behind the hero are too significant to ignore. This factor lowers the hero's true odds to the point where the hero should fold. If you think the hero is getting 11-1 in this hand you are being naive.

Raising is the worst play here becuz all the hero has is a weak draw with horrible relative position, this is not a time to put more money in the pot. Calling is -EV becuz of all the reasons ive stated, but I will admit that if the hero always made these -EV calls he wont be losing much, but -EV is still -EV. Folding is the best play.

About "screaming weak tight" I dont think the hero should care about what others think of him, his job is to make the best decisions possible, and folding is the best decision.

To conclude, the pot odds the hero is getting is an illusion becuz of the heros bad relative position, and it is this bad relative position that makes folding better than calling and raising the worst of the 3 options.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you make a lot of good points. I wish someone would address them instead of just responding "clear raise and it isn't even close. do you see why? nyuck nyuck"

But I think you're ignoring the very very real possibility that I have the flop bettor beaten. What would you say if I was about 55 percent sure than I had the flop bettor beaten? Then I think you have to promote raising from "the worst of three options" to a pretty good choice.