[bluefeet]

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what? you think there a lot of hands that miss their turn c/r and then try for a river c/r? that's pretty rare.

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i'll give you that one. close to never. trying to bolster my arguement for for leading the turn a little too hard i guess.

so just to summarize, by checking the turn you're looking to...

a) get him to lead the river for you, or
b) get him to check-call


how often do these happen?

compare to how often these very hands call your turn lead?

your arguement is one of 'value'. do you see your line getting more value than mine? if so, is it enough so that you can AFFORD TO GIVE THE FREE RIVER CARD?

you have to be careful what you wish for.

how eagar are you to call his lead, or bet behind when an Ace, Q, J, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, or now another spade not mentioned?
calling...sure, reluctantly prehaps, depending on exactly what card it is. leading behind? not advised.

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lead flop
check behind turn
call modest river lead
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this line is perfect had your hand been A8 here (river call a little suspect, but you get the point.

we check behind the turn, looking for a cheap showdown when we can no longer hold that our hand is MOST LIKELY ahead. IF we believe that our hand IS most likely a head, we continue to bet for value, charge for draws. i don't think that either of us are debating the value of your hand at the turn. you must lead again.