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Old 12-31-2005, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: AJo......Stage 1 of play along

Waiting for the turn is a VALUE play and I see it applied to situations like this incorrectly a lot.

By raising the turn, a gutshot draw is the only hand that Hero can and wants to fold.
If there is a gutshot out there, we can't protect against it on the flop.
When a safe card falls on the turn, the gutshot holds about 8% equity. The value in folding the gutshot is having that equity donated to Hero.
Hero's equity (if ahead) is likely 50+%. So the value of folding the gutshot =
8%*50%*11.5BB
= .46BB

So Hero gains .46BB when he folds a gutshot on the turn. Lets say that Hero folds all Kings and all Tens, by which he doubles the amount of equity gained to .94BB or ~1BB.

Now what are the chances that Hero folds every K or every T with a raise. Not to mention the chance that SB will lead the turn again. Who knows?

But if we give the VERY generous estimate that the combination that SB leads the turn and that Hero can fold every gutshot happens 80% of the time - the value to Hero = ~.8BB .

Now in order for that to have/be of VALUE, this figure (.8BB) must exceed the value of raising the flop.
If we estimate 40% equity for Hero on the flop, he only has to be called in two spots for the value of a flop raise to exceed the value of waiting for the turn.

Not to mention the times he is called in more spots and when SB re-raises with a worse hand (ie.FD).

Waiting for the turn in this hand is not the best option IMO.

This is the first concept I wanted to discuss with this hand.

Waiting for the turn is for hands whose equity is unclear and likely much lower than this hand - ie. 1 pair hands.

But the common misconception is that waiting for the turn is to fold Gutshots.
Yes. Partly. But it is also to fold hands like bottom and middle pair as well. These hands will generally have 5 outs against Hero (1pr hand) and are MORE dangerous to Hero than a 4 out gutshot. For each of these hands folded, Hero's hand will gain in value by ~10% in equity. Well worth the trade off in lost flop value.

In this case, Hero has value ADDED rather than lost when middle and bottom pair hands call.
IMO. There is way too much value and way too much overlay to wait til the turn.
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