Re: J8s from the button
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong - I thought we generally bet when we have an equity edge with the assumption that we will be called? If we assume people are folding when we bet, then we can't really discuss equity edges as precisely as we do. If we take people's folds into account, it becomes a much more difficult problem deciding when to value bet draws and exploit equity edges. Let me know if I've been thinking about this all wrong, because it could easily be something that's been costing me money.
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Let's take an example. You are in your exact same position, with 12 outs on the turn. You are first to act, and you check. The player to your immediate left bets, and he is called by 4 players. Since these people have already committed one bet to this street, it is very likely that they will all call one more bet. So you check/raise.
This is an example where equity is more clearly defined. But the concepts can be applied to many situations. I would say that when 4 people check to you on the turn, very few of them plan on calling a bet, and you can assume that your equity scenario is not nearly as rosy.
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Even after they all called two bets on the flop? That seems to me that they're interested in the hand.
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