[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
Barron, if you are going to make assumptions like these, then you don't have to write out complicated mathematically formulas, the answer is painfully obvious.

Look, you assume

- he'll bet all hands he would have called with
- we cannot fold to a raise
- he always raises when he beats us
- he never raises a worse hand

Yea, no [censored]. Of course if you assume this stuff, then check call is the way to go. It's pretty obvious. The math doesn't add any weight to the argument, since the whole argument is about whether or not your assumptions are valid.

In fact though, a number of your assumptions are suspect. First of all, it makes no sense to assume that he will never raise a worse hand AND that we cannot fold to a raise.

Further, you have ignored all possibility that he has a 2 or an ace.

Personally, I'd bet because my hand is near the top of my range in quality. I expect him to call with a wide range of hands but I'd be concerned that he won't necessarily bet these hands. I'd call a raise for the same reason, because I don't have to hace a hand when I get here, so I call all the times that I do.

I do agree that if we can count on him to value bet the river aggressivley, then check-call starts to look nice.

good luck.
Eric

[/ QUOTE ]
i agree w/ e-dog (can we call u that?)