[RJT]

1) Go to any law library near you. All those books you see are filled with agreed upon moral codes. They usually come from elected reps., not God.

I agree. That is why I asked chez, if his proof was meant universally or for those of us who say we have morals.

You are correct. The laws are filled with things that we who agree to abide by them agree are the morals of our society. I agree with the morals (majority of them) and I sign the contract to abide by all of them by living where I do. Had I no morals I would still sign the contract in order to live somewhere. Doesn’t mean I then have morals.

2) Super. But you don’t necessarily need those things for a moral system and you still better make sure you follow your societies moral system lest you end up in jail.

I was only telling chez and the reader where mine came from - I wasn’t limiting where I received my morals from to those listed either. Others have their own sources for their morals.

3) Really? Where would you be allowed to live?

I would be allowed to live any where I chose. If I had no morals, it doesn’t necessarily mean I would break any laws. It would be harder in certain places than in others depending on how my life style might change.

But, I could think of places easier than the U.S if that is what you are asking. In the U.S. perhaps Vegas -if it really lives up to its slogan.

4) Humor us and assume your an atheist with your new found amorality. Please defend it rationally.

I will give this answer for now (and btw, I am not positive I can defend it totally, never really thought about it in depth, but I think I can) but I am going to bed soon.

So for now, let me say this. Agreed upon morals assist us in the society we live in. It is for mostly social structure that morals work. Did you see the Seinfeld episode when Jerry didn’t want his picture up in the apartment building? The neighbors got mad at him when he didn‘t want to kiss hello and stuff. Well his society broke down for him. He then wanted to be part of it because he needed for example the handyman to fix his shower. So he agreed to abide by the rules of kissing hello, so he could be a member of his neighbors and partake in the benefits. He still did not have the moral that kissing hello was good, but he agreed to it for his own benefit.

Morals make society function better. But morals in and of themselves are like innate objects.

Let me give you another example of what I am thinking. Ok, now I am amoral. And now I choose not to care about the environment. I have no children and I don’t care what goes on after I die. Must I care about the environment. I don’t care about anyone else who survives me. If Antarctica melts because of global warming and floods the earth I don’t care if I was partly to cause of it with my fuel emissions.