[Exsubmariner]

OK Jdanz,
Your response here was challenging. I appreciate it. You have caused me to examine my pretexts. I can only conclude the reason why I pursued this line of thinking was because as I learn more and more about the rhetoric of Islamists, I am motivated to come up with a line of thinking which puts them in the same light as they view me. That is, as immoral and sub human.

Now, the arguement you presented to me, is basically the moral equivalency arguement. My moral belief system is equivalent to a Communists or a Fascists or an Islamists or a tribesman on some isolated island somewhere because all moral codes everywhere seek to achieve the same things.

If you believe this, you are wrong.

I'll tell you why.

In fact, you mentioned it yourself. You threw out the concept of "moving the human community forward." OK now define it. If you define it by war and mass exterminations, then fascism and communism from the last century would win hands down. If you defined it by the creation of a society which has in two hundred and some years provided a higher standard of living for its people than has ever been seen in human history, more techological advancement in the shortest amount of time than has ever been seen in human history, more freedom of thought and social tolerance for it's people than has ever been seen in human history, more wealth for it's people, the longest average life spans in human history, the best health care for it's people in human history, then you have to unavoidably unmistakingly absolutely conclude that the Democracies of the western world are the benchmark for "moving the human race forward."

What major contribution to history has Islam made in the past thousand years? If you choose to set the standard for the value of morals based on the "moving the human community forward" standard, my moral code and my standard (i.e. free market and democracy) of defining the value of human life is clearly superior.

Choose your freedom or submit. Which one do you think will move your human community the farthest forward?

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