[tinhat]

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No. You are just making an excuse for losing. Give me a table with 5 players seeing every flop, every time, and I will get rich.

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Somehow we made the leap from OP to "5 players seeing every flop"; I never said that. And it's important - this abundance of dead money to make up for losses doesn't exist. Typically it's me and two of the five.

A shallow thought-exercise: Consider a session where all you're dealt is marginal hands and you are not running hot or even warm. But you aren't running cold either. (Marginal hands occur most frequentlly so have a greater impact on the bottom line). Correctly playing these hands against a random two rotten players out of the five but never the same two, where is it unreasonable to think that the converse of the sshe/hepfap statement isn't true?

Am I better than any two of the five individually? Sure am. But am I better than the cumulative odds of any two of the five as a group playing almost any hand regardless of action and taking it to showdown against my marginal hands which were never going to be better than 50/50 to begin with ("losing" also includes bets lost when folding these hands before sd)? Is anybody?

Mike