[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Party 30/60 10 handed. You know who I am and I know who ou are. A very loose player limps UTG+1. You raise black Queens behind him and I three-bet. The rest of the table is pretty tight, they all fold. Limper cold calls and you cap.

Flop comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Sucky limper checks, you bet, I call, limper calls.

Turn is a T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Limper checks, you bet, and now I raise. Limper folds. Your play? Opponent in this hand thought that 3 betting was the right play. Now I fourbet, what's the play now?
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

not 3 betting the turn and callin down.

i like it for a number of reasons:

1) how many levels can james think on. how many levels does he know opponent can think on. james turn raise looks strong as hell, AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK(s)/AQ(s)99/TT/88/and MAYBE 77 if he looks behind him, sees nothing but tightwads and tight blinds (bad game except the limper). he sees opp. raise limper and reisolates.

opponent caps and both call, clearly james's opponent here has AA/KK/AK(s)/QQ/JJ from his eyes, and that is about it. the problem with the turn arises preflop where the two ranges of hands are not totally congruent. james recognizes this. if james had 66 on the turn, he'd call the flop gambling that if its a favorable turn: A/K or card that gives him more outs, he can raises and play aggressively to knock his opponent off of QQ/JJ. its a gamble. but QQ/JJ looks like SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT after james's turn raise. opponent would have to go a level up and realize that james knows what he has here and is raising INTO a better hand some % of the time. this is where you have to look at your watch after james turn raise with 10.75bbs in the pot and say i need to call here 13.56% of the time and be good in order to break even. James knows this and opponent now uses that watch and parces the 60 seconds into about 8 second intervals. now using the watcho n opp hands sucks b/c james knows what is going on and wont bet the river the times he doesn't have a better hand here (JJ/88). anyways, anything divisible into 8ths, pick an 8th and go with it. if it matches call down if not, call and fold the river.

at some point, you have to use some form of game theory to make it indifferent to james whether HE raises here or gives up if he knows what opponent knows.

in the heat of battle thats hard as all hell to do. multitabling especially.

2) you have to let james know he can't push JJ/88 off QQ and that you'll pay off like a slot machine sometimes. this way, next time, unless he 4 levels you (grrrr) you can fold. waste a bet now to save a bet later, unless you'll always use game theory.

lesson. dont ever 3 bet the turn here. it sux.

but you have to call down and lose a lot here so james wont do this (betting the river) as often as you'd like. now if a J hits the river, QQ is 100% no good, no need to call. if a Q does hit, bet. if an A/K here hits its questionable but now from james's perspective that means trouble so it may be worth the bet since he now cannot raise b/c that raise would be as bad as opp's turn raise.

sorry for the long ass post.

-Barron