Re: Unusual PF play.
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This is exactly the thought process that should be involved in whether or not to push here. You state one side of the argument quite well. The reasons why looking at the example I gave is a push in my mind though are these:
- Although your hand is made transparent by pushing it is extremly likely to be the best hand, and it will be very difficult for anyone to justify calling looking for a race because you could have two big-ish cards (AQo, AJs, KQ) OR a medium pair (JJ-77), so they can't sit there with thier KQ and call 'knowing' they will be a race. Also you will be all-in so you won't be hurt be giving away your hand as much as in deepstack because there are no implied odds offered to your opponents on post flop decisions.
Also this doesn't (as was a point of yours) force them into big mistakes when you push but the key to this hand is the stack sizes. You are pushing to win about 235 chips, more (about a 25% stack increase). By calling the 30 chips you have a chance to win about 800 more by stacking someone which you will almost certaintly need to flop a set to do. Now take the times you flop a set (1 in 8) and the times you are actually able to win a signifigant amount of chips in this multi way pot where nobody has a strong hand and you can figure out what you stand to gain by "giving up" the opportunity to take down this 25% stack increase immediatly.
My point being that forcing one opponent into a very bad decision is of decreasing importance when you can gain from SEVERAL opponents making marginally bad decisions.
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I can buy all of that except the last sentence. I'm not sure there are very many players standing to make marginally bad decisions in this hand... they are all likely to fold correctly after having limped correctly a majority of the time. But the more they limp, the more I like your play and your justification.
I never thought the play was that bad, but hearing you discuss the chips you stand to gain as a percentage of your stack I think I like your push quite a bit more.
Irieguy
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