[tiltboy]

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You know I generally like your advice but this is by far the stupidest thing I've ever seen you post and one of the stupider things I've seen at 2+2 and that is saying something.

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Well I've got to disagree with vehemently. This is hardly the stupidest thing I've ever posted [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have VERY strong feelings about the atkins diet and the people who are on it. Which is why I used the word "idiot", what I should have said was "misinformed and ignorant".

Obviously you are knowledgable in the atkins diet (or at least I'll take your word for it, seeing as how you've actually read a study on it), so I could debate you about why it is a bad diet plan, but prolly not change your mind, in the same way you prolly couldn't change mine. Whats wrong with the atkins diet and the people on it tho is that it has become nothing more than a marketing ploy. I would say 95% of people know absolutely NOTHING about the atkins diet other than "carbs=bad", which is complete and utter nonsense. And with the marketing blitz by every food marketer and restraunt in the nation jumping on the "low carb" bandwagon, your average person now just thinks "welp, I want to lose weight, its time to quit eating carbs!", and they will lose some weight initially because when you cut carbs you cut lots of water weight, so when they go by the number on the scale on day 3 of their diet they think they are acheiving the desired results. wrong!

Carbs are a very important part of a well balanced nutritional health plan, cutting them out is a bad thing. Especially if you don't even know WHY you are cutting them out. It's like if you look at a box of red vines, on the front it says "ZERO FAT!!!". Like I can eat a box of licorice and I'm eating healthy and losing weight because there is no fat in it (hopefully its obvious this is completely false). In the same way that the fat you eat doesn't suddenly just become fat in your body, carbs you eat don't suddenly turn into fat in your body. Yet this is precisely what people are being led to believe.

I also shouldn't have said "any diet book" as this isn't true, you are right. It's any "fad diet book", but in my opinion its the same thing.
When you say "which outline sensible, scientifically-supported approaches to dieting" I generally consider this as a nutrition book, and would recomend anyone who wants to go on a "diet" read, as it will prove infinitaly more valuable than any crap "diet book".

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Yes, I thought we agreed on several points, but the way you phrased your statements forced my hand into making a response. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I agree carbs are not implicitly bad but probably disagree about whether they are vital for good health or not. As I said in an earlier post on this thread I do a cyclical ketogenic diet which is low-carb most of the time but also includes a once-a-week hi-carb period. The carbups are nice but you still can't just pig out on anything during them--you have to keep fat and protein relatively low too. I've studied the research on this and related low-carb diets pretty closely over the last year and found many benefits. The fact is, I do know why I am cutting carbs out of my diet periodically. Many nutritionists and physicians are now changing their opinions on this type diet based on some of the recently released positive longitudinal studies on their effects. You are right, people should study and know why they are following a certain diet but I'm not sure I agree with you that the average Atkins follower is more ignorant about nutrition that the average man on the street (at least I think that's what you are arguing). There are many active Adkins and low-carb bulletin boards and not all the information on them is stupid or ignorant. At least these people are taking an interest in what they eat and why they are eating it, unlike most of the rest of America.

P.S. You've said this a couple of times so I have to respond. Yes, you do lose some water weight during a ketogenic diet IF YOU DON'T DRINK A LOT OF WATER. If you read any rational description of a CKD for example you'll see large amounts of water intake are vital. I personally drink about a gallon a day. Bathroom break anyone? You also seem to be implying that because there is some water weight loss IF YOU DON'T REHYDRATE there is not fat loss, but this is in my opinion, as well as my personal experience, dead wrong. These diets work. Sticking with them is no picnic, but then again almost anything worth achieving in this life is no picnic either.