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Old 12-14-2005, 10:28 AM
POKhER POKhER is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: .50/1 At Stars - LONDON, UK.
Posts: 590
Default Re: No. of Outs when counting them is most applicable???

Read SSH first once through, don't skim read it... actually attempt to digest it. Dont go into depth or try apply the things after this first read though just play your standard game and think "well can i raise for a free card here? probably... SSH is starting to make sense now".

After you've read it once then go onto read it again but this time in detail. take each concept one by one and consider situations in your head and open PT and play some hands through to see if you could of applied a free card play to that certain hand.

If your not sure, then thats what the forums for. Post and say "Can i raise he for a free card? Do i have enough outs?" you may be told yes and then you can question the person as to why ... or even better... you get told no and learn more.

As you go through each chapter begin to apply these to your game.

Once you've read the whole book, start it again. Or go to a chapter you feel you didn't fully understand.

For me it was the "Free card play". on my 1st read and 2nd read i still didn't fully understand it. Infact i missed one word "Outs" which confused the hell out of me!

It basically said if you have outs to continue then do this xxxxxxx.

Having missed that word i was thinking "So do we do it when im getting 10 to 1 and i have 2 outs? or do we need 4+ outs? ".

I re-read it again and then understood it.

Experience
So you re-read it and you learn all these magical concepts, but knowing if you should call the flop vs Mr 60/20/4 or raise for a free card is still a tough one.

this is where logging thousands of hands comes in, and as with many posters here... after 10 000 hands we read SSH and understood a bit. After 50 000 we read SSH and understood a HELL OF ALOT MORE.

Infact last night i read SSH and i now feel i have enough to experience to fully understand alot of if not all the concepts in the book.

However even now, i still fail to use the free card play enough when i should. I still fail to value bet in some situations and i still fail to protect my hand.

So continue to grind, experience will make SSH EAISER TO UNDERSTAND.

Apply one concept at a time and build upon a solid foundation. Should you not understand a concept post here.

if you post hands here, people will often say "this is WA/WB so you should..." or "you should have bet folded the river because he...". These things will be confusing so dont attempt to understand them as you have the basics to learn but do not disregaurd them.

You will eventually "click" and you'll read SSH again and say "Yeah that makes sense, so today when i played that 77 pair Heads up i should have bet the turn as it was a monotone flop and he could of have a naked ace on a flush draw... so i needed to protect it and charge him to draw".

The above ^^ is what i was thinking whilst trying to get some sleep at 3am last night [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

then when you do play a hand, and apply hand protection then post it even though you lost the hand and get told "Perfecxt" or "Id of raised it you couldnt protect..." you'll learn the finer details.

you're off to a better start than 90% of people here IMO but progress will be slow at these micros. Just put the time into playing BUT DO NOT IGNORE STUDYING YOUR GAME AND REVIEWING SESSIONS.



Post flop is 10x more important than preflop
This is my opinion and my be challenged by others so we shall see.

For now i'd download the SSH chart PDF file that can be found on here. Pin it to the wall and just follow it. I.e. "Im on button with AQs and eveyrones limped... Do i raise?*Checks chart* yes" ok *raises*.

I'm not saying dont attempt to learn it, but don't do as i did and re-read Preflop 10x before moving onto post flop. Preflop decisions dont matter much not and specially not at 0.02/.04 so you can re-learn preflop stuff later.

However post flop will apply RIGHT NOW and IN THE FUTURE and as SSH says.... Post flop is where you make the money!

So concentrate post flop, use a chart for preflop. Once you're happy you know postflop(this will take a while.. dont expect 1 month... it took me a while) then you can go to preflop but even then its debateable as i dont think there will come a point where your prefect post flop.

However there will come a time when your pretty dam good and then you can go to preflop and ditch the chart(Although by then you'll have experience and will have already understood the values of ATo vs QJs and why you limp certains hands here and raise them there and fold them vs this villan but 3bet vs the next villan) so it'll be easier to understand.

SO POST FLOP IS TO BE STUDIED, PREFLOP IS A FINER DETAIL Not to be ignored... But can be "put off" for a while yet and simply follow a chart for now(over time anyhow you'll adapt without realising as you become comfortable with post flop things)



If you have AIM or MSN pm me and ill add you and should you need any quick help i can offer to help you. Ill always recommend posting on 2+2 if im unsure myself.

POKhER.
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