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Old 12-14-2005, 01:34 AM
Gamblor Gamblor is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,085
Default Mens rea

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Do you understand the difference between first degree murder and all the other things you yourself pointed out as murder?

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We already went through that here.

In the last post, I proved that those deaths are murder. Now you want me to prove that they're all first degree murder too? Sounds like fun.

In Canada, first degree murder is defined in section 231 of the Criminal Code, as any homicide that is proven to be murder and is also planned and deliberate. You'll want to pay special attention to subsection (5), part e:

(5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
(b) section 271 (sexual assault);
(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).


Now, if you don't happen to think that Jews in concentration camps were forcibly confined, you have much bigger problems than legal semantics. But let's continue down the section to see what other types of murder constitute first degree murder:

in the same section, subsection (6):
(6) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 264 and the person committing that offence intended to cause the person murdered to fear for the safety of the person murdered or the safety of anyone known to the person murdered.


section 264? (1) No person shall, without lawful authority and knowing that another person is harassed or recklessly as to whether the other person is harassed, engage in conduct referred to in subsection (2) that causes that other person reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety or the safety of anyone known to them.

Basically, murder also becomes first degree murder if you harrass someone and make them fear for their lives before they die. No Jew was not harassed and caused to fear for their lives while in the camps, even if that particular few only ended up dying of typhus, which is still murder for the reasons stated in the last post.

In other words, any way you slice it, it's first degree murder.
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