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Old 12-12-2005, 07:19 PM
Buzz Buzz is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
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Default Re: limit O8 - betting top two pair or a set on the turn (or not)

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You might get 1 BB, but I am assuming that any resonable field would fold to a big diamond or Q/T hitting.

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Knoll - Yes, the implied 1 BB on the river if Hero makes the nut flush or boat is iffy.

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The key to this proposition is that one must have the discipline to fold when you miss the river.

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When hero has a set on the turn but doesn't improve on the river, when instead a straight becomes possible on the river, and when Villain bets, as though representing the straight, in truth there is a very strong chance Villain is bluffing.

There isn't much bluffing in Omaha-8, but the situation described is a place where Villain will often bluff.

In a tough game, most of the time when nothing higher than a set is yet possible on the turn and then a straight does become possible on the river, if Villain reads you for a set and thus a missed boat/quads on the river, and if Villain thinks there's a chance you'll fold your set to a bet, then Villain will attempt a bluff. Rightly or wrongly, that's the way the game often gets played.

I do have the discipline to fold when I think folding is in order. But is folding in order when very possibly facing a bluff on the river?

Do you see? When you bet your set or top two pair on the turn and when nothing higher is yet possible, you look very much like you might have top set.
Then when the board doesn't pair on the river, but the river does enable a straight (or a flush), you're set up for a bluff attempt.

I don't know the solution. When the board does pair on the river you want to have gotten some money out of the hand so you want to have bet the turn because you might not be able to collect on the river.

However, when you bet your top set on the third betting round, if Villain knows you "have the discipline to fold" to a bet on the river when the board doesn't pair and when some oblique (or not so oblique) straight or flush becomes possible, then you're damned sure going to be facing a bet from a tough Villain (who may or may not be able to beat a set). When Villain can't beat a set and gets you to fold one, Villain will be clearly out-playing you.

Buzz
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