[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever. We're talking about countries here, we were talking about individuals there.

[/ QUOTE ]And, in bringing finally the two sub-threads together, I will maintain that, in the context of either individuals or countries, the rhetorical question applies equally aptly: Do you have to be rich to be success?

Anyone who does not answer that (rhetorical!) question negatively, has issues.

(And I do not mean underlying issues. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

[ QUOTE ]
Those people aren't *everyone* in Europe ... What you should say is "some people in Europe."

[/ QUOTE ] I did not imply that everyone in Eruope is in agreement. Europeans have not been unanimous or nearly unanimous about anything in the last two millenia, bless their inventive, belligerent, nervous souls!

The fact is that a significant number, oftentimes the majority, of Europeans are quite content with the social policies associated with the European Union, although, at the same time, they complain about the "bureaucracy" that comes with 'em.

Guess what? Collective policies, inculding collective decision-making, involve by definition some of that "bureaucracy". Most people in Europe realize this, when all is said and done -- and this is why they keep returning to power politicians that are carrying them on.