this method is described in several holdem texts and it does work very well. also, an 8 outer on the flop is 31.5% so it's about 2.17 -1, a lot closer to 2-1 than 3-1. with the straight flush example you noted the percentage is only your odds of improving not of winning the hand. so your odds of improving to a pair or better are very high but you still may lose. in that example you'd really be more concerned with the straight flush, flush, and straight draws so you'd actually have 15 outs = 54.1%. i was just wondering if there was an equivalent to this in stud...