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No offense Rivermonger, but it doesn't sound like you believe you can do anything to resolve or improve your self-imposed misery. And this is important: IT IS SELF-IMPOSED. To reiterate, you are chosing to think in this crazy, illogical, dichotomous fashion.

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Why is it self-imposed? I'm over the woman leaving, I'm not over the financial destruction she left in her path. It's not like I'm indigent, unemployed, and a fool. I am doing everything I can to get out of the hole, yet it just gets deeper. I have a good job, have arranged payment plans with all of the creditors involved, etc.

The fact of the matter is that almost every dime I have I spend to get out of debt that really shouldn't be there in the first place. THIS is my fault, as I shouldn't have entered into a contract with a [censored] woman, whether she be fiancee, wife, mother - etc. If I'd never signed my name on the dotted lines, I'd not be in this unfortunate position.

The fact that I'm miserable isn't self-imposed. The fact that I'm broke after every paycheck with little to nothing to show for it other than enough to live day-to-day and be able to eat isn't self-imposed either. The fact that all I have is this is making me miserable. I'd like to take my next paycheck and go to one of the Michigan casinos and play some damn cards, maybe go on a date, maybe go and spend a night at the bar with my friends. I'm not in position to do anything but work, eat, sleep and pay at this point. That's not self-imposed.

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I would be in the depths of a serious major depression if I thought the way you did (and I used to). And I 'don't want to pay the doctor bill.' But, if you are as poverty-stricken as you say you are (and I have no reason to doubt) you may not need money to get comprehensive medical attention. First of all, if you are poor and/or mentally disabled (bipolar is recognized as a severe medical impairment) you probably quality for medicaid/medical assistance. And if you're too mentally disorganized to work you could get disability. Futhermore, many therapists and mental health professionals work on sliding scales. Also, the materials I referenced (by Albert Ellis on rational emotive psychology) are free or inexpensively purchased used. Even if you didn't quality for anything you could see a medical professional anyways since bankruptcy is in your imminent future and the law says you have to be treated at the ER if they accept federal medical insurance.



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I am not indigent. I work, and work a lot. Unfortunately, we are not offered benefits, or I would probably already have been to a doc, as good as I think it would really do me. I'm also not in bankruptcy, the main reason I'm as screwed as I am is the fact that I *KEEP* paying these creditors. I'm just sick of paying for [censored] that I truly didn't accrue. The living arrangements wouldn't have went to hell had I lived there, that was just a stupid mistake that I made trusting a female. I have enough money to eat, and keep in my current living arrangements. I have no extras, as I pay these bills. That's probably why I seem as crazy as I sound, because I haven't had a speck of fun since the bitch left.

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BTW, I didn't mean to state or imply drugs were your only hope. I personally have found working on thinking more rationally has improved my life exponentially. I was in a really vile, pathetic position about 3 years ago and it literally saved my life. A psychologist gave me CBT (cognitive-behavioral psychology) book for free and I actually employed the techniques and worked with great desire to improve my thinking and self-defeating behaviors. It worked it my estimation. Let me tell you something, I was probably in a position similar to yours. And this is why you will never get the symphathy you think you deserve on this message board: almost all of us have had extremely difficult, nasty, unfair cirumstances and have been forced to overcome them. There is nothing special or unique about your case. You come across as egotistical (not to me) but to others because I think it appears as though you vastly over-rate the importance of your material problems. I don't think most people wish harm on you; they just think it sounds like you're having whining tantrums about how life is unfair and how you've been mistreated. They are simply saying: GET OVER IT!



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I actually have thought quite rationally. I do not want to talk to some shrink over a phone on a suicide hotline. I came here because I knew that it was a vast community from all walks of life, and from my lurking and former posts I knew I could expect a wide variety of answers.

I think you misread me, I am far from looking for sympathy - far from it. I was more or less looking for guidance and a reason to keep myself alive. I don't need sympathy, because at a suicidal point - you really don't give a damn for yourself. I haven't for some time.

If I was to be struck down tomorrow without killing myself, I would probably welcome it. I guess I'm just too much of a pussy to do it myself, so I came here looking for a reason to justify NOT doing it.

It's only money, but in our crazy society, money makes the world go around. Those who have it, usually want not for anything. Those who don't have it, want for everything. I am a special case, in the fact that I don't want money for myself.

The reason, if you read my original post - that I started contemplating suicide was because I was contemplating stealing off my mother's credit card to stake myself into poker. At that point, where I would think of stealing from a family member to try to recoup enough financially to get some breathing room for a month or two, I seriously though about ending it. It's not like I'm thinking of this so I can have material things, I'm thinking of it so I can fix problems.

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I hope you reread my original message. I adamently tried to describe the reason for your misery (which is obvious). Perhaps I failed. PEOPLE AND THINGS DO NOT DISTURB US, rather we upset OURSELVES by believe they CAN disturb us. You are not upset, depressed and miserable because you are poor or because your your girlfriend left you. You are upset, depressed and miserable because of your beliefs about being poor or being shunned. If you didn't believe 'I musn't be poor or I will be hopelessly depressed and useless' you wouldn't be so miserable. You probably would realize you're in an unfortunate position that isn't desireable and would try to improve your financial status.


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That's the thing, I'm not poor, and without all of this dumped in my lap, I really wouldn't have much cause to "improve my financial status". I do fairly well at my job, and will be eligible for company benefits soon as they are opening up benefits to non-executives. If it was a magic slate that could just wipe clean, I wouldn't need poker, or a second job to be completely comfortable for the rest of my life. I also could give a damn about the girl, we had a great relationship, and it didn't end by cheating or anything of the kind. The only thing I care about her is the fact that she is unwilling to help with any of the mess she caused because she isn't "legally responsible". I love her to death, but I contemplated her death before I contemplated mine.

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Assume that A is an 'activating event' like losing a girlfriend or being broke. Many people falsely believe that they are depressed becaus something negative (like the above) happened. Let us plot a few variables and see what your situation looks like.

A='Activating Event' Losing girlfriend and going broke
B='Belief about Activating Event' This is HORRIBLE and I can't stand it. How unfair and cruel. This is AWFUL!
C='Consequence' You feel very hopeless, angry and depressed



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A - activating event was not losing the girlfriend, but rather having to pay 18 months of $1100 rent, plus $3600 tacked on top of the security deposit. Nearly $24,000 in one angry creditor demanding near immediate compensation is bad.

B='Belief about Activating Event' This is HORRIBLE and I can't stand it. How unfair and cruel. This is AWFUL!

C='Consequence' You feel very hopeless, angry and depressed

As you'll notice, your B and C are completely unaltered, but still completely true to the situation.

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Now, it's not activating event 'A' that actually makes you upset and depressed. Rather, intervening variable 'B' is the culprit. Your negative cognitive-emotive result is a function of your ideology on poverty and being dumped, not the actual event itself.



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Again, I could care less about being dumped. And yes, the fact that I've paid out nearly $14k in the last 6 months on [censored] I didn't accrue is actually the culprit, not my feelings towards it. If I have the 14k, I don't care about the girl, the living space, anything of the sort.

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Let us replace 'B' with a more rational thought and see what happens:

A='Activating Event' Losing girlfriend and going broke
B='Belief about Activating Event' This is very unfortunate, frustrating and upsetting but I can still find ways to find enjoyment in my life and next time use better judgment. C='Consequence' You feel healthy remorse and a healthy level of frustration that leads you to make better choices in the future. You don't feel hopelessly powerless and suicidal but instead tell yourself 'tough luck, this is highly unfortunate but that's life.'


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That's the problem. It's not losing the money, it's the fact that losing the money has taken all of the enjoyment out of my life. I work 45-60 hours a week, and the only thing I look forward to daily is my dinner and my pillow. I haven't had a night of fun in nearly 5 months because I can't afford it. My friends will ask me to go out and I decline because I can not afford to even go see a movie. I can't remember the last time I sat down to eat something I didn't cook. No more restaurants, no more movies, no more bars with friends, no more football on Sundays, etc. No, I sit and go to work so I can pay off a [censored] cunts debt.

If my belief was that I could still find enjoyment in my life through this [censored], I wouldn't be fathoming killing myself or stealing from my loved ones to try to get back to normal. Your analysis would probably be spot on in most cases, but I think you're missing the mark here, especially since a lot of your focus is on the female, and not the destruction she left in her wake.

If I don't kill myself, I'll ultimately make better decisions. I'll never sign my name to a contract for anything that a woman will be a part of without her signature as well for one. I'll probably never make the bad decision of becoming intimately involved to that level (living with) with a woman again. Many other things, but I think those take the cake to start.

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Anyways, this model (which is admittedly an oversimplification of the original to some extent) has helped me in a tremendous way. I was living in an ant-infested apartment with $15,000 in credit card debt from medical bills and felt suicidal and miserable. I utilized these cognitive techniques and effectively and rationally dealt with financial, emotional, and economic problems (rather than having tantrums and making unrealistic demands of the world and myself).



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Who is having tantrums? I've thought the last two nights I've maintained a fairly even keel for a suicidal person in talking the problem out with a bunch of strangers. Also, did you not have insurance? If not, then you're pretty much in the same boat I am now, at least at that point. You didn't cover yourself in a contract, and you got screwed.

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I'm saying you could do the same if only you'd give up your irrational set of beliefs and behaviors.



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I honestly think I'm fairly rational. I decided to put my problem on display for a large group of people to see in hopes of getting posts like this one. While I don't agree with some of what you've said, talking about it has helped me immensely.

That's the work of a rational person, not an irrational one. Yes, contemplating suicide and theft is irrational, but it's still just contemplation. I took the rational step instead and tried to talk my problem out with strangers (which is what any doctor would be right now, a stranger).

I am interested in what you are saying however, and I greatly thank you for your well thought out and articulate reply.