[MisterKing]

Wow. I read the OP and my gut reaction was to launch into a mini-tirade about FPS. That said, having looked through QTip, Private Joker, Nick R, and others' commments, I do see some merit in the C/R iso-play -- but I'm not entirely sold that raising is the best EV play. Good thread, guys.

I wonder if you might expand on what your plan is for the turn after C/R the flop. What do you do if a queen hits? An ace? A spade? A brick?

My answers (all answers assume that we are not 3-bet on the flop): Wow, a queen turn is very interesting, as we could either bet/call or c/r again if our opponent has any aggression to him. We pick up lots of new outs when the Q falls (except vs QQ KK, AA, and KQ), so we can either continue our aggression and bet/call if raised (knowing two things: we're behind but prob still have the outs to draw in this massive pot), or we could get really fancy and C/R again. I guess I prefer bet/call. Button would have to be a massive weaktight vag for me to C/R him, since I guess we can get some folding equity that way.

If a blank hits, I'm c/f. Period. The strength of our hand on the flop is that we have all these bd draws. When they vanish, our hand's value does too.

If a spade hits, I really want to C/R if there is any chance at all this will fold JJ/QQ/KQ/KJ/etc. (JJ is an interesting case apart from the others there). But in a 2/4 game where people's call buttons seem to be stuck, and their fold buttons almost completely inoperable, I think bet/call is fine on the turn... maybe c/c but this screws up our "lead" in the hand and kills any chance of folding out pairs smaller than kings.

If an ace hits, its bet/fold time. Would help if we had a read on button to know if he'd raise us on the turn with less than AK here (pretty much the worst hand that beats us -- assuming button isn't a maniac and raises 44/55/K4/K5/A4/A5 after four limpers). No. 1 we have to bet an ace for value, and No. 2 if we're raised after C/R the flop then I think we're totally [censored]. Seems like an easy b/f to me.