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Of course the plane has to be moving relative to the air around it (or the ground if that makes it easier).

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this is it, you need wind over the wings for lift!! a plane cannot get in the air without lift! wtf, i can't believe noone gets this

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Please explain specifically what FORCE is stopping the plane from moving forward (relative to the atmosphere, NOT the conveyor belt).

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isn't the whole premise of this post is that the plane isn't moving?

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I just skimmed this thread.

The issue isn't whether or not the plane is moving on the runway.

It's about whether or not air is moving across the plane's wings.

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thats exactly what im basing my arguement on; if the plane isn't moving relative to the atmosphere, the plane doesn't take off....game over

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While it is completely true that there is no lift if the plane isn't moving relative to the atmosphere, you've made quite an incrorrect assumption that the plane is not moving relative to the atmosphere.

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thats the whole point of the conveyer belt....it stops the plane from going anywhere....you obviously don't move relative to the atmosphere when youre running on a treadmill, right? thats the whole point of a treadmill, so you can run WITHOUT MOVING.