[hmkpoker]

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Yeah... and we know the universe is ordered by induction. We examine it. Since every oberservation has shown it to be ordered, we induce that it is ordered


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As Hume proved and I've argued, you are arguing in a circle. The fact that the sun rose today says nothing about whether it will rise tomorrow unless you assume order, then when the sun rises tomorrow you say, "See, order".

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No, it's basic conditioning. If each time a certain man gets out of his car he gets a static shock when he touches the door, he will eventually realize that it is going to happen again and will brace himself when he closes it. (this happened to me, because of the shoes I was wearing) Then I wore different shoes, but found myself bracing for the shock. It didn't come. Again and again, I went shock free. I stopped bracing myself.

Humans and animals are very similar in this regard. In my psych experiments we'd lock a rat in a cage where he could press a lever and get food. Eventually he figured it out, and pressed the lever often. Then we disabled the food mechanism, and after a flurry of lever pressing he realized it was worthless and stopped.

The sun is the same way. Let the sun stop coming up a few times, and we won't expect it. This is not circular.