[ZootMurph]

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Finally, The one thing I hate on these forums that I see ocassionally is that people post in a thread "Bad call on the river". That's it. No explanation as to why they think that, etc.

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Not to be nitpicky.... but this is a common complaint voiced frequently.... but usually in threads that deserve them. You've gotten nothing but well-reasoned responses here.

As for your hand analysis...

I will continue to maintain that initiative or no initiative your 3-bet was bad. You're ignoring the sometimes villain has a made hand. Or chooses this opportunity to bluff. Or the times that, shockingly, one of your opponents behind you has a hand!

And then, you follow it up with a terrible bet. The guy behind you just called 3 cold. What is he calling 3 cold with that he's folding here? Shockingly, he just calls.

Then, on the turn, you bet again. You think c/call and bet are the same... except for the fact that your opponents often, even EVERY time, have another option available to them: raise. And you can't fold, but you certainly don't have equity to put in two bets on the turn headsup when you're behind.

That your opponent played this like an even bigger donk is the subtler form of revisionist thinking you're undergoing here. He should have raised you on every street.


At least you got the river right.

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ErrantNight. I understand that's a common complaint. However, you are wrong in saying that all the responses here are well-reasoned. Look at the very first response. [ QUOTE ]
With your description of Button, preflop is pretty horrible here.

[/ QUOTE ] I see neither reasoning nor anything that is remotely discussable here. Also, what about the flop, turn, river? Anything? Just because someone thinks I shouldn't have played preflop doesn't mean you should discount the rest. It happened, tell me if you think it was good or bad, and why. That's all I, or all those other that have complained, are asking.

And, I'm not ignoring that sometimes he has a hand. I'm saying that even with a hand he will get a flop he doesn't like, and may fold. Let's just say he raised with JJ. Well, when the King flops, will he call down when I three bet him preflop? Probably not. But maybe. Anyway, I have position and will get away relatively cheap if he continues past the flop. Finally, he didn't cap preflop, so most made hands are probably out at this point. He could have a King, and I'd find out on my flop bet if he does. In any case, the times he has a hand are cancelled out by the times I have a big flop. If the flop is 663 or 345, he will call down with AA, or better still, start a raising war with me. So, again, the extreme cases (him having a made hand and me hitting a huge flop) basically cancel each other out. For the record, if it got headsup and he capped preflop, it would be easy to get out for the 2BB I was expecting to gamble with unless I hit a huge flop. If he doesn't cap, I'm certain he doesn't have a pair or a small pair which can fold without hitting the flop. Again, leaving me a 2:1 favorite in the hand and still only costing me 2BB.

The flop bet I agree was bad. Really, that was the crux of this hand for me. A really tight player calls a three bet preflop, and I bet into him on a board with two broadway cards with 7 high. Ugly. Before I go on... I agree it was bad. There was a nice pot and the only chance I had to take it down was to bet. 1 bet to win 10.5. My folding equity probably wasn't that good, but I made a mistake and didn't think about it at the time.

On the turn... raise wasn't an option here. Period. I never saw this player raise. Ever. Over 500 hands. With that information, I feel that check/call and bet are the same. If you look at his holding, you will see my read was spot on with regard to his ability to raise (he may even be a bad attempt at a 'bot, the way he played).

Finally, I agree that he should have capped the flop and raised every street. I would have been forced to check fold the flop if he'd done that.