[DcifrThs]

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you have a better hand than crappy players, so raise

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here's an example, if you're opponents had literally any hand and played EVERY hand randomly in the same spot (i.e. just change the initial limper's range to include all hands) would you raise TT?

Barron

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Of course but that isn't what's happening here at all.

You guys don't give the bad players enough credit ... ever. They might suck, their VPIP might be 45%, but they're not total idiots. Come on already.

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my point is simple and you seem to discount it greatly.

you're willing to risk the flop being checked through OR another person in an ealier position betting AND you're giving up your likely large equity preflop given your description of the villians.

im perfectly fine accepting the arguments you've made because they are correct in certain circumstances but not given your description of the villians.

Barron