[john kane]

thanks again for the replies. I just think the maths element of poker is far too ignored when consider the amount you bet to the amount of opponent money to win with the % of yourself and your opponent hitting.

to reply to the aboves:

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This is very wrong. If your better than your opponents than heads up is the best scenerio for you, regardless of your cards. Multiway pots you cant just play your hand strength (lets say you get TPTK) and someone checkraises you on the flop, you wont have a clue what they have because multiway pots tend to get a lot more creative hands in there.


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likewise if you get check-raised on the flop heads up. neither you know where you are. but you are far more likely to be betting the flop with weak cards heads up than in a 3 way flop, and so your defense heads up against a check raise is less than 3 way, as you are more less likely to of bet with a strong hand.

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if you assume that you win if you hit a pair, you should want to have 9 callers. do you see why?

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i am not basing my assumption that i will win if i hit a pair, i am basing it on the very high % that i will be ahead vs 2 opponents. If i hit top pair vs 9 other players, clearly the % that i will be ahead is far lower, and so i would not make the same assumption, i would instead assume i am ahead if i have flopped the nuts. The reason i assume i am ahead is that if you have hit top pair there are only 2 cards out of 47 in the deck out of the 4 cards your opponents they can hold to equal your top pair (although obviosly theory points that they are more likely to be holding these high cards), and even if they also have top pair then you will quite likely have them out-kickered, or they may call with their mid pocket pair they called your raise with preflop.

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this whole post is ridiculous. sometimes when i continuation bet if i havent hit i have the best hand, if not i am hardly ever drawing dead. youre also assuming that hitting a pair gives you the nuts or something, if thats the case, why dont we want everyone at the table calling?


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thats a bit harsh 'ridiculous', im applying a lot more thinking both maths and theory wise in my posts than you are in that reply.
i have explained above why hitting top pair very good kicker is far better 3 way(in terms of much higher % to you are ahead) than 9 way, it is all basically maths of your opponents holding cards and the %s to hit different hands on different flops.

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Interesting Stuff.

just curious do you play limit? i think this type of work will get you farther in limit then no limit.



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thanks. i began with no limit, went and learnt to play what id like to think decent limit, and switched back to no limit due to the much higher profit hourly rate and better players have a much better edge imo.
i agree it works with limit, just that in limit it is often tempting to throw in a bet on the flop as that is the maximum you can bet, and that if the flop comes ace high, its can be worthwhile to bet that single bet as that also represents the most you can bet, whereas to represent the ace in no limit you have to bet proportionally much more of the pot than in limit (risk more proportionally to the pot to win the pot with the risk being equal in both limit and no limit, that neither opponent has an ace). So yes that is actually a reason why it is better in limit. But then limit i just find too frustrating the lack of flexibility and robotic nature with the play.

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You should mix in a line break occasionally.


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i agree, ive tried with the last two posts.

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I used to think in the same way as you do when I was starting my poker career.
Now I dont care about stuff like that.
Its not important at all. Just make whatever your standard raise is and play whatever poker gods require from you, pot vs 1 , 2 or maybe 5 opponents...

Best wishes


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i agree you should be capable of playing against any number of opponents, just that in a game we always aim to maximise our hourly rate, maximise EV, considering this is a fundamental part of the game, the preflop raise, i dont think enough is analysised of it compares to 'how to play aces preflop etc etc'.

Those are my thoughts and thanks for the replies, further thoughts are most appreciated,

chris