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Old 10-27-2005, 04:17 PM
bluesbassman bluesbassman is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Default Re: Is there inherent, observable randomness in the universe?

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Before you tell me that Quantum Mechanics says there is, consider this:

The only way we can know about a particle's position is via our senses, the most appropriate of which is vision. For our eyes to detect something we need photons to transmit information.

In the case of particles on a small scale similar to photons it stands to reason that the ability of photons to transmit reliable information is restricted, just as you could not get a very accurate picture on your TV screen or digital camera if it only used 1 or 2 pixels instead of several million.

It is my understanding that this limitation of photons' ability to transmit information is the key to the uncertainty principle, and therefore what seems like inherent randomness in the universe really isn't. The particle is there, only we can never know for sure, no matter how accurate our measuring devices become. The limitation applies to us and not the universe.


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This interpretion of the uncertainty principle is incorrect. Randomness is a fundamental, inherent property of the universe, rather than a practical limitation on measurement devices. Here is a Wilkpedia link which explains exactly that:

Uncertainty Principle

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Just as Sklansky is looking for evidence to support the existence of God via his threads on miracles, I am looking for evidence to support atheism ie. that randomness actually exists in the observable universe and not just in our minds.

I currently am a believer in God, but if I see convincing evidence about the above, then I would seriously begin considering atheism. Any help, info., links, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

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Read the link I already provided. To the best of our knowledge, the universe is inherently nondeterministic. Accept it.

Regardless, whether the physical laws are ultimately deterministic or nondeterministic has nothing at all to do with whether "god" exists. Presumably, this "god" could have "designed" the universe to be nondeterministic. (In fact, some theists argue precisely that to rectify the contradiction between on omniscient god and free will.)

I'm an atheist not because of the uncertainty principle, but rather because the concept of "god" is arbitrary and meaningless.
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