i'm talking about limit holdem. i've only played online and i'm really tired of books with hand examples of the "game is 20/40. 3 players limp, you raise from the button and the blinds plus the limpers call" type. basically all the examples involve at least 4 players. where are all these authors playing? i play on party and you'll be lucky to get 5-6 players on a flop at 1/2$, never mind 20/40$...starting with 3/6$ it's all one huge rock garden. if that many see the flop for 20 or 40$ a trained chimp could beat the game. forget about expert post flop play on a table where 5-6 see the flop on average, you don't need it to show a profit. i play 5/10$ and i'm happy if there are 3-4 players on a flop 1 in every 3 hands, never mind 6. so for you who have played both games are casino fish as retarded as the books would have you believe? if the games were that loose we'd all be making millions playing 4 tables a couple of hours a day [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]