[EverettKings]

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Hand 1: This is tough. His raise is just SO big that I have a hard time believing that he'd play a set that fast on a relatively safe board (vs a preflop raiser). More likely he has a 88-TT type hand or diamonds or 44. So, your options are call and raise. The problem with calling is that you don't know where you stand on the turn and you don't earn any more chips from worse hands. Raising must be all in, and that will price out draws and prevent bad cards from tricking you out of the hand.

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Yes, but you forgot the biggest problem of all. This is kinda what I'm talking about in that post that no one really liked.

So let's say given this situation you cant get away from this hand ever. This is reasonable, given Roman's observations about 77-QQ, etc. So, once you decide you can't get away, you can ignore the fact that your opponent might have a set. I mean, the money is going in however any of you play it, so it's kinda irrelevant to consider if he has a set, if you can never get away from KK here given any further action/cards.

So, I think this helps make the situation very clear that you need to reraise here because the biggest fear of all is that when you are ahead, and if you decide to call, some turn cards may kill your action (thats what I think you missed Everett). I think that single fact outweighs any arguments for clat calling.

-Jason

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I think we're saying the same thing.

I basically agreed that a set is getting paid (since I can't give him credit for it), so I ignored the set without actually realizing that I was ignoring it. Also, mid pairs I think will fold to a reraise all in here or shut down on the turn if you call, so regardless you're getting the same money from them. So I kinda ignored them too. I don't actually think that there's many hands whose action you can get killed on the turn here, so that's not really a concern.

The main issue here is drawing hands, which are pretty numerous. The only move then is a push.

Everett