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Old 10-21-2005, 03:05 PM
playersare playersare is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 708
Default Re: Why do 100%+ payback VP machines exist?

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Are there a lot of suboptimal players though who are playing ONLY because the paytable is +100%? I find it hard to believe that the casinos overall take would decrease if they replaced all their +EV double bonus machines with ones with a less generous paytable.

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well, again it's obvious that the casinos see no need to change it. 10/7 double bonus is a VERY volatile pay schedule and achieving the actual 100.17% return would probably require millions of hands over time. note for example that a hand of 4 aces occurs only 0.02% of the time (1 out of every 50000 hands) and yet contributes nearly 3.2% of the net EV. also note the bizarre logic that a straight flush only pays 50x even though it is twice as rare as the 4 aces which pays 160x.

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I was thinking more of the $5 and $25 coin machines. The $/hr can quickly get up over $100 when you factor in cashback.

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yes but full pay machines besides JoB are not available in these denominations. the maximum you'll find is as I previously quoted, 25c FPDW and $1 DB. on sub-100% machines, the cashback will bring you close to breakeven, but the casino still wins in the long run. high limit players like Bob Dancer and Jean Scott must rely on temporary promos and side comps in order to afford the casino luxuries they claim in their books.

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The Wynn put in a bank of FPDW machines when they opened. Two weeks later, after nonstop play by professionals, they were gone. Why did they put them there in the first place?
And for that matter, why the hell is VIPSports offering a FPDW machine.

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casinos will often put both lower limits as well as higher paytables on the floor when the first open (or when a new expansion is completed), to attract attention. no more out of the ordinary than placing an ad in the paper or giving $5 coupons to first time players club members.

and VIP sports is definitely NOT full pay deuces wild. a 9-4-4-3-2-1 schedule only returns 98.91%. sucker.

just calling a machine "Deuces Wild" doesn't make it +EV. a majority of paytables are adjusted to below 100%. have you studied much on the game before? check wizard of odds or read Dan Paymar's book.
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