[mackthefork]

I think betting the turn is spewing in hand 1, betting the flop may also be with that many players involved. Hand 2 I follow same line, possibly go for check raise on the flop if there is an aggro player who will bet into you.

Mack

Edit: Hand one only 3 handed on the flop I might be wrong, I still think you're up against an ace the vast majority of the time.