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Old 10-13-2005, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: If There Is No God

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This suggests that our instinct is not developed to the point of being stronger than our reasoning or our emotions, but there is still no mass suicide amongst atheists. Why? Where are their convictions?

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I swear I have yet to see a non-intellectually dishonest post from you. If someone earnestly believes that he has to live a certain way or do something to 'survive' to the afterlife, that's where his survial instinct gravitate towards. For instance, if someone believes that in order to have 98 virgins and everlasting cherry-popping bliss he has to join a jihad and crash a plane into a building, of course he will, that's his survival instinct. If I feel that in order to live longer in my only life I can't kill myself when I'm in pain, I won't. It's still an instinct, but what it means to 'survive' is different.

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1) When an atheist has suffered great pain and stays alive despite the ability to easily kill himself, he is lying to himself and everybody else if he thinks there is nothing beyond death.

Or

2) Religious people are higher on the evolutionary scale because they have found a way to preserve and perpetuate the human race to a much greater degree due to their ability to suffer, and are thus superior.

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More airtight logic from Saint Peter. Why don't I kill myself when I'm in pain? How many answers will it take to satisfy you? Maybe because I realize I have one life and that this pain is temporary? Maybe survival instinct? They don't want their loved ones to feel pain? There are an infinite number of logical reasons not to kill yourself when you're in pain. It makes no difference whether some people irrationally kill themselves (see radical Muslims), whether or not they come to the conclusion through logic (see radical Muslims).

I think your 'ability to suffer' statement is a little dishonest. People have different chemical reactions in different situations. A person can lift a car if he thinks his child is trapped underneath. This same person might be able to overcome the pain of a gunshot to the leg to save their spouse. Without certain stimuli, this would not be able to happen. A person can't just lift a car out of nowhere when he feels like it. Just like a Christian can't just take a large amount of suffering in stride. There's got to be a stimulus that triggers the ability to suffer a great deal. But that's not just a special Christian response. Look at the example above with the gunshot wound. Saving a spouse is enough for some to trigger the response. Not wanting to renounce your faith may trigger the response for some (Christians tortured until they renounce faith). The 'higher on the evolutionary scale' has nothing to do with being a Christian, it has to do with what makes someone able to lift a car or withstand pain, which is that chemical response. So yes, being able to trigger that response makes one higher on the scale.
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