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Old 10-11-2005, 04:28 PM
LearnedfromTV LearnedfromTV is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Van down by the river
Posts: 176
Default Re: Hypothetical Question

I don't know the answer but there is something big I have not seen mentioned yet.

It is NOT legitimate to ignore the non blind hands, even if you assume your opponents will refuse to play when they do not have the (implied) odds to call preflop.

To take the simplest case, you have KK UTG, raise, and it is folded to the button. The button's thinking is as follows:

If I call, the SB is getting 11:3 to call and see a three- or four-way flop. If I call and the SB calls, the BB is getting 7:1 on a four-way. If I call and the SB blind folds, the BB is getting 11:2 on a three-way.

My call widens the range of hands with which the SB and BB can call. The fact that I can influence them to call by calling myself widens the range of hands with which I can profitably call, given the implied odds of hitting my hand in a multi-way pot in position against a preflop raiser who I can play perfectly against, including optimal bluffing.

Now back the same reasoning up to the cutoff.

The first coldcall starts a schooling effect that makes this quite a bit more complicated than the headsup v BB analyses would indicate.

Edit:

Another example: Faceup KK on the button. UTG open limps with 88, UTG + 1 calls with AJ, MP1 anticipates a six way pot and calls with 87s, etc. There are a ton of way that three players could be dealt hands from the set of hands that can profitable play for two bets six way with a faceup KK included. The faceup KK actually gives good multiway hands extra incentive to call because they can (almost) guarantee that they only have to put in two bets. The only exception being when someone picks up AA.

Given the presence of other players playing postflop against each other and the faceup KK, proper strategy for the KK postflop would be much more complicated than proper headsup strategy.

Generally speaking I think this is still a very profitable spot but you would win a great deal more in position. You may even be even money or negative in EP. A wild guess is that the overall EV is much closer to the 100-200 range than that 1000 range.




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