[Cooker]

I see your point, but my point is that there is no right and wrong outside of a human construction unless there is a God (as I believe Sklansky has already argued here several times), and I don't believe in God. If we give animals rights, then we should hold them to the same standards we are held to in order that we have those rights. Most humans that murder other humans for purely selfish reasons certainly receive a suspension of their normal rights (sometimes terminally). If an animal wants to have all rights due to humans, then it must abide by all normal human laws. I don't relish trying to prosecute lions for antelope murder, nor do I think it is feasible to try and force a wolf to be a vegan. If you are so gung ho on animal rights, then shouldn't all lions be stopped? Aren't tigers and sharks all evil since they all "murder"? You can't have it both ways, either we can kill antelopes, deer, fish, cattle and other animals for food in whatever way we want the same as bears, lions, wolves, etc. do or we can't and they can't and we should try and stop their evil murders.

No I don't like the idea of someone torturing animals, but I am not sure why such distaste should have developed naturally. I think it likely that this act is such a clear cut precursor of violence against humans and general mental defects that we have shunned those who committ it traditionally. I also don't like the idea of a meaningless existence, but you are stuck with what you have not what you want.

I believe I can say with high probability that the day an alien life form steps foot on Earth is the beginning of the end for mankind unless they want to enslave us (unless we are bringing them back as our slaves). I think subjugation is a best case scenario for an alien encounter.