Re: raising the flop for value - countings outs exercise
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Are you talking about betting or calling the flop when you say you don't like to look at flop to river odds? If the pot is big enough, you should generally call with strong BD draws (like a BDFD to the nut straight) on the flop. You have to re-evaluate the turn, of course, but you can't discount flop -> river odds completely, which is why we assign outs to those draws.
I'm not sure you're disagreeing with this in your post, but it wasn't clear to me whether you were talking about betting/raising or calling.
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I wasn't very clear, sorry. I was talking about deciding whether or not to bet or raise a draw for value on the flop.
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