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Old 07-30-2005, 12:14 PM
West West is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 20
Default Re: ICM says this is a fold. I always thought this was a push...wtf

I don't know much about ICM yet, but I did some quick and dirty calculations that I think are helpful. You're not in good position in that you're fold equity is about to be significantly reduced, there are three stacks significantly higher than yours, and even the other guy has about the same as you.

The only hands you are really worried about calling you are AA-77 and AK-A8, because those are the only hands that have you dominated. By my calculations that range is a little more than 9% of the possible hands any one of your opponents could hold (AA&77 = 3 combos each (6), KK-88 = 6 combos each (36), AK-A8 = 12 combos each (72), total of 114 combos, 114 out of 1225 is about 9.3%).

1225 - 114 = 1111. I estimated the chances of none of the remaining 4 players calling you with one of these hands at (1111/1225)^4 ~ .6765

If we were to assume when called you would always be called by just one person, and if they only call with the hands you are worried about, then 67.65% of the time you would win the blinds (225), and 32.35% of the time you would get called. My quick estimation was that when called you would win 28% of the time. If on average you win 1050 chips when you get called but win, and of course lose 850 chips the 72% of the time you get called and lose, then your chip EV would be:

(.6765 x 225) + (.3235 x .72 x -880) + (.3235 x .28 x 1050) = 152 - 205 + 95 = + 42

I don't think being called by a few more hands that you are either beating or flipping against is going to change things much. Given that the blinds are about to take a good percentage of your stack on the next two hands I think it's a definite push.

*edit*...I think it's *probably* a push, though my instincts are this is right around a borderline decision. From personal experience, (not in the $20s), I know I wouldn't push this from UTG if there were 6 players instead of 5.

Also, things obviously improve for you if some of the hands that dominate you won't call you (obviously player dependent), which I would expect to be the case.
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