[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
I would classify this as a poor hand. You get 1.5 outs from the BD flush, and at most 1.5 outs from the two 7's. (your 7 may be dominated by a better kicker) That gives u a total of 3 outs. I wouldn't count the 8's or the BD straight possibility. With so many other players I fold here.

If you are heads up against the SB then I would raise and see what happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK.. but this is practically the exact hand out of SSHE. I could look it up when I get home and post the exact hand, but I think they're essentially identical. S&M say to raise it. The idea of the flop raise is to clean up your outs so you have ~6, not 3 as you suggest.

Now, perhaps your answer points at where my math went wrong, as if I had discounted the outs as much as you did, raising certainly proves better than calling (because you get tens and 6's and such to fold, so your 8s are good then.
That said, I don't think it's fair to (for example) not count the 8's as outs at all if you just call. When you hit an 8 here you win at least sometimes. The likelihood of a 7 hitting and someone having the case 7 with a better kicker is remote. Even if that Does happen, you'll often split. So discounting even half an out for that seems like a lot.
I think I missed the BD straight draw in my original post too.. you probably gain almost a full out on that by raising.
So even if I don't agree with your line, you're helping me to understand the raise. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]