[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]
By definition NL is a harder game than limit, there is no debate.

That doesn't mean limit games are easier to beat. In fact I think the opposite is true.

[/ QUOTE ] I think you're contradicting yourself there. If game A is harder to beat than game B, then the game B cannot be harder to beat than game A. I can draw you a chart. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

That said, I agree 100% with Malmuth's thought that good NL players have greater edges over their opponents, and that it takes more skill to become an expert limit player.

The reason is that non-thinking NL players can make huge mistakes on any street and it can cost them their whole bankroll.

If in NL: player A is 20% better than player B, then player A is going to be a big favorite to eventually induce one mistake that would cost player B his whole stack. If player B really sucks though, then player A doesn't have to be much of a player himself to be very profitable against this guy.

It is much harder to gain an edge on a player in limit for a few of reasons:

1)you can't always protect a hand on the flop. Sometimes a pot will be built big enough pre-flop that a flop bet will not be enough to protect your hand. If you hold JJ and see a ten high flop on a two-flushed board, you may not be able to protect it. This is never an issue in NL, since you can just bet out about 2/3 of the pot and watch the drawing hands drop like flies.

2)you have to beat more people at once. The VP$IP of a good player in NL is typically lower than that of an equally good limit player. This is because there are some marginal NL hands that are not marginal limit hands from early and middle position. The net result of this is that limit flops tend to have more people involved than comprable NL flops. If you have three people in on the turn in a NL game, then someone is about to lose his stack.

3)hand reading is much more difficult. Because a wider range of hands are playable, and because every bet is the same size, a person's hand isnt as easily read as it is in NL.

4)bluffing is more difficult. Once a pot reaches a certain size, it is more difficult to fold a player out with a pure bluff because you cannot control the odds that they would be drawing to. A NL player can use his chipstack to move people out of pots that they could contend for in a limit game.

5)folding postflop is also more difficult. You only risk calling in limit, and can do things like call down with two pair to see a showdown as cheaply as possible. This move doesn't exist in NL, because someone can push enough to force a re-raise/fold decision.

6)there are more actions per hand than in NL. Every action you make gives away a little bit of information about your hand. To win a big NL pot, you just have to push or call a push with a great hand. One move, turn the cards, scoop the pot. To win a big limit pot, you often have to bet/reraise/call - then bet/call/call - then check/re-raise/cap - then bet/re-raise/call. That's a lot of moves to make, and your opponent(s) have to be making mistakes on quite a few of them in order for this line to be a winner.