[BCPVP]

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I actually think the democrats (in office) were weak for going along with it. The people contesting the drive to war in Iraq were the brave and the level headed.

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Another possible explanation for the stereotype that Dems are weak on defense could be the perceived wishy-washiness. "I voted for the $ 87 billion...etc". Do you believe that the Democratic Party has been 100% consistent on most issues w/ regards to the military? I don't, and I think that's just more fuel for the stereotype.

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He didn't liken all the troops to Nazis. He was talking about what was going on in the prisons. Talking about a specific incident is not a generalization about our troops. To pretend otherwise is dishonest. Questioning whether or not we are abiding by the law and questioning the virtue of torture does not make one weak on defense.

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I'm beginning to think you do this on purpose. Read what I wrote again. I didn't add the qualifier "all", did I? Whether he meant to or not, he did liken them to the most horrible thugs the 20th cen. knew. And from the military friends (and stories of others) that I've heard, many of the soldiers have this "insult one of us, insult all of us" mentality. So, to some military men, Durbin might has well have said "all".

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But my point is most stereotypes are dumb. stereotyping by nature is almost always inaccurate. And for the record, there is a stereotype that the Republicans are less educated and misinformed.

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Stereotypes are not in and of themselves dumb. Stereotypes don't tell us much about individuals, but they are useful when talking about large groups of something. Regardless of your feelings towards stereotypes, the stereotype that Dems are weak on defense does exist (I've seen polls to this effect, but I'm too lazy to look any up, so take it FWIW), and to argue that that stereotype is based on pure fiction is just silly.

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I see. So you believe in stereotypes, but you don't believe that negative baseless propaganda works. OK.

I've never heard anyone deny that a lie repeated enough has no effect. You're the first.

I guess if stereotypes are true, then Republicans are racists, ruled by the rich who solicit to a voter base too dumb to know that they're supporting people who are working against their own interests. They don't care about the working man and would sell out their family if the price was right. And they've never met a situation that can't be fixed with a few bombs. Since stereotypes are all real, you'd have to agree that this statement is probably true.

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Now you're going off the deep end. You're twisting my words and purposefully, I believe. My point isn't that stereotypes are always correct. My point is that stereotypes often have some root of truth when applied to a large group, but don't tell you much, if anything about an individual. There is a stereotype that Republicans are just rich fat cats. And there is an element of truth to this stereotype, no? But acknowledging that the stereotype exists and accepting it as applying to all of those within the group being stereotyped are two different things. I hope you realize this.

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I don't see why you think this is so difficult. Both parties portray their opposition in a negative light. There were times that the opposition was painted as communist sympathizers... people were afraid of communism and labeling people such was effective. It didn't mean it was true.

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You're making this much harder than it has to be. I agree that both sides will portray the other negatively. It's not been my intention to prove otherwise. My point all along has been that there's an element of truth to a stereotype, but when we begin applying (or misapplying) traits from the stereotype to individuals, we run into problems.

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Its popular to label democrats as hating Christians... the reality of it is that many, if not most, Democrats are Christians. Its just nasty propaganda. Both parties do it to demonize their opponents. Is that so hard to accept

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One last time, I'm not arguing with you on this. But even propaganda (which I think often relies on stereotypes) have an element (even if it's very tiny) of truth to them, otherwise people would see it's all bs. The fact that people can see a couple cases where the stereotype fits and then begin painting the whole group with the same brush is why propaganda sometimes works.

Do we understand each other now?