[deepdowntruth]

In Harrington on Hold'em Vol. 2, particularly the Orange and Red Zone chapters of Part 9, DH emphasizes the importance of "First-in Vigorish" (or FIV); namely the idea that being the first "into" the pot increases the value of even your marginal hands as you have two ways to win (making everyone else fold, or getting called and showing down the best hand).

One confusing (to me) aspect of his constructed examples however is that they assume that either the pot is raised in front of you, in which case you'd typically fold all but your best hands, or that everyone folds around to you, in which case you push, given the added value of FIV.

However, what if you have limpers in front of you? Does the concept of FIV still apply fully? Partially? Not at all?

I can see two ways of thinking about it:

1. If you have limpers (but not raisers), this is a good thing for you because the limpers, by virture of having limped and not raised, have not shown (much) strength, and therefore you can pick up even more chips by pushing. So...yay limpers!

2. Since the limpers voluntarily entered the pot, they showed at least some strength, and since there is more money in the pot, greater pot odds are offered to anyone deciding to call you, which fact of course increases the probability of a call and decreases (or nullifies) the value of FIV. So...boo limpers!

So which is it? One or the other? Both or neither? Maybe either given your reads? What?

Help me out here.