[Stuey]

I just count them as half outs.

I think it is the backdoor draws that can add value to these hands. I think it is more important to notice the size of the pot and the number of players in the hand, plus your table and relative position before counting the outs in these situations. And I try not to talk myself out of folding, if I start to feel lost I muck it.

The idea that overcards are like weak drawing hands is something I like to think about as I play them. I look for other ways to win cheaply with my hand without needing to count the outs and have pot odds on my side.

I am not saying this is the best way to play, it is just the way I do. And I would be open to changing my ideas. Good post I look forward to what others say on this.